thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney coming to you live in washington, d.c. where the election cycle is always running on high gear. we have a lot to get to this hour. long time between now and 200016 and anything could happen. >> hillary clinton has a lot going for her as a candidate. she has experience, she's a natural leader. >> very hard for hit to -- >> and as our first female president, we could pay her 30% less. >> i think america is a place that believes in second chances. >> is jeb bush running? >> yes. >> i hope jeb runs. i think he would be a great

president. >> of course now that it's 2014, washington is obsessed on the mid-terms. >> the republican establishment now thinks it is on the verge of an almost total rout of the tea party. >> these days in the house republicans actually give john boehner a harder time than they give me. >> the republican congress is so fractured. >> which means orange really is the new black. in your sunday forecast today, the mid-term elections. it's may 4th, exactly six months away from the critical 2014 mid-term elections, which means we are almost in the homestretch. three states have primaries this tuesday. that will be indiana, ohio and of course, north carolina which is one of the states that could decide which party controls the senate. it is a fact that was not lost on president obama who poked fun at washington, d.c.'s obsession with the mid-terms at last

night's white house correspondents dinner. >> folks are sag that with my sagging poll numbers, my fellow democrats don't really want me campaigning with them. and i don't think that's true, althoughdy notice the other day that sasha needed to speaker at career day and she invite bill clinton. i was a little hurt by that. >> the president also joked about who might succeed him in 2016. the possibility of hillary clinton being the democrat's presidential nominee, and a nod to joe biden, of course. >> it's a long time between now and 2016 and anything can happen. you may have heard the other day hillary had had to dodge a flying shoe at a press conference. >> governor chris christie was also an easy target last night,

talking about the bridgegate scandal, president obama had this to say. >> washington seems more dysfunctional than ever. gridlock has gotten so bad in this town, you have to wonder -- what did we do to piss off chris christie so bad? >> let's bring in our panel. aisha ed inmills, kate shepher.d the president was having a little bit of fun at his and democrats' expense. but is he a liability? polls seem to suggest, our own nbc news/"wall street journal" poll show his numbers are back to where he was in october before the roll-out of the healthcare.gov website. but is he an asset to democrats or is it better that he stays away? >> i think it is better that he

stays away in terls of being on the campaign trail but i think it is really important that he lead in the messaging around obamacare. one of the challenges that's happening on the campaign trail is that republicans have had an opportunity to constantly knock the website, knock the website without having to really talk about what the policy is going to actually do and what it will look like once it is implemented. now that it is out there, he's got successes, he has to start messaging about the benefits of obamacare in a way he hasn't done successfully before. >> the other part of that message is, you had had members in their home districts having to explain to their own constituents why they shouldn't have health care, why they would want to take something away from them sglp i think overall democrats need to do a better job about communicating what's going on here and why it is good for you. that's been an issue for a long time now. i think alicia is right, that should be coming from the president down how this is working and why it is good for people. i think that's a message people

are starting to see that it is actually working for them, that this is good. >> some are starting to make comparisons to where president bush was at this point in his presidency. so obama's approval rating has increased three points from march to april. bush approval rating declined from march to april 2006 from 37 to 36. is that a fair comparison though? >> i mean, look. obama's got two years left in his term. they all start to sag at this point. that's a reality. i want to pick up on what both my colleagues said. the republicans have to do the flip side, which is make the case to their base and to the american people that obamacare is every bit of the disaster we've said it is, of the 8 million of those registered, a good number of those lost their policy. they have to argue the flip side and say this is bad for america, this is bad for you and they have to really dig that in so they get their base riled up in a mid-term which has historically low turnout. >> let me push back for a second. if you're having that

conversation -- if you're having that conversation with somebody who has just gotten health care perhaps for the first time through obamacare, and if you don't -- if you're not offering -- here's my alternative -- how is that a good message? >> i think you're right. if someone who's just gotten it is very happy, they're happy. but someone like me, i was one of the people that got canceled originally. i'm in virginia. i had anthem. but actually i got restored because of the hoopla that happened about what the president said so whatever happened that they reversed, i'm not losing my health care anymore. liked what i had. my point is the i think the republicans and democrats are at odds, as always, but they have to make the case hard to their respective bases because it is going to be a base election. >> the president talked about obamacare last night. take a listen. >> of course, we rolled out healthcare.gov. that could have gone better. in 2008 my slogan was yes, we

can. in 2013 my slogan was control alt delete. >> so the president having a little bit of fun at his own expense. kate, to what sophia was saying in terms of turnout, it is all about turnout. traditionally you do see higher turnout in mid-term elections with a republican base. which suggests that is part of why we will now have a commission on benghazi and a commission looking into the irs scandal, not because those issues play well nationally but because those are the issues that really appeal to that base. >> i think it is absolutely right. we've seen obamacare the big issue for a long time but that's becoming less of an issue now that it is in place and frankly there are people out there who like it. i don't think a problematic website is enough to sell people against it. but benghazi is the new issue i think they are focusing on to gin up support especially among the true believers on the right who are going to be the faithful

voters. i think we shouldn't underestimate the degree to which people believe the benghazi scandal was a scandal. i think in actuality some of es have brushed it off as not being a big deal. >> hillary clinton and benghazi in terms of on the ground with their base are a greater liability because they are looking at 2016 and trying to do what they can to disrupt 2016. i think more so than a liability of the president. >> let me comment on benghazi. i respectfully disagree. i think that it is a base issue. i think the issue is foreign policy doesn't play that well with the country at large. but i think the benghazi situation with this latest memo, smoking guns, whatever they were saying, is that we still haven't gotten to whether or not it was a spontaneous thing as some say or whether it was a larger issue that was bungled. i think that's the issue. >> i think we did. it feels like what we are still arcing about are the talking points, what who wrote what talking points when and when

were they sent to whom. >> that's the problem. this conversation is more of a political witch hunt about did you try to lie and cover something up as opposed to a real conversation as opposed to thinking about our foreign policy and our intelligence and how we come to understand that the militia groups are on the ground and how we come to understand who our friends are and aren't. there are like 72 disparate groups that are working on the ground there in benghazi, some of whom we tried to befriend, some for our own gain and that hasn't always worked out to our benefit. the conversation should be a much bigger policy conversation about what we should do in that region as opposed to a political witch hunt over whether someone had a talking point or not. >> i want to switch gears to 2016. this week george w. bush said i hope jeb runs, i think he would be a great president. is jeb going to get in the race? >> i think america -- clintons, bushes, dole -- the doles are done finally. but another bush, it would be three. it would be a different piece of history if we had three bushes become president. i don't know that he's going to

run. i suspect he might throw his hat in. there may be pressure from the base to do so. from the republican bench, i think chris christie is out of it. i don't know if he can rehabilitate himself or not. the fact that jeb's name is being tossed about as the establishment candidate, guys like scott walker and others, i just don't know. that's a hard question to answer. >> final question to you, kate. it does see we saw a "new york times'" headline of donors moving away from christie, taking another look at jeb bush. sounds like he is at least putting in motion the pieces, let's say, that you need if he decided to run. >> everybody feels it out a little bit before they commit. americans have shown we're comfortable with political dynasties. >> that's what the polls show. >> why not jump in? it is an open field on the republican side right now. >> we have to leave it there. the panel will be back with me. still ahead, a federal judge says no rational person should be concerned with voter fraud. with six months to an election

that's all about turnout as we were just saying, how will voter i.d. laws affect the 2014 mid-terms? and later, it is just not wise to attack beyonce. ♪ when i'm halfway into your heart ♪ ♪ you have to let me know [ female announcer ] when sweet and salty come together, the taste is irresistible. sweet and salty nut bars by nature valley. nature at its most delicious.

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but hurry! sleep train's interest free for 3 event, ends sunday. ♪ sleep train ♪ ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ rnls as we've noted, today marks exactly six mons until mid-term leaks on november 4th. first time the voters will go to the polls nax wide since the voting rights act was overturned by the supreme court where restrict offive voter i.d. laws curbing early voting and same-day registration means six months to be able to make sure voters can cast their ballots.

on friday an arkansas judge found the state's voter i.d. law unconstitutional for the second time. unfortunately given that early voting for the primaries starts tomorrow, officials will on't b able to enforce that law. as the judge said, there just wasn't enough time to spot it. earlier in wisconsin a judge overturned that state's photo i.d. law issuing a forceful 90-page decision that shot down the entire logic behind conservatives voting restrictions. they said, "cases of potential voter impersonation fraud occur so infrequently, the judge wrote, that no rational person familiar with the relevant facts could be concerned about them." also this week, a court re-affirmed its decision overturning pennsylvania's voter i.d. law and in ohio the naacp joined with the aclu in a lawsuit against the state's cuts to early voting arguing they disbut portionately impact people of color. with voting rights groups around the country gearing up for a summer of activism is the

momentum finally shifting in the right direction. sophia, i think the judge made it quite -- i know conservatives say it is about in-person voter fraud. but again, the instance of in-person voter fraud is .00000. and one of the important things they found in the wisconsin decision is that blacks and latinos are disproportionately likely to live in poverty and therefore lack the qualifying i.d. why are -- why are conservatives fighting this so hard? >> i think it gets back to what aisha said in the last segment about the policy issue. we need a policy discussion on this. your point is well-taken but i think we've gotten lax on voting rights and about these issues because we feel like we've arrived now and nobody really discriminates anymore. right? that's the mindset that i think many judges and other brings to the table, come on, nobody does this. the issue is disproportionality.

people of color will always be disproportionately impacted when it comes to these type of issues. i think having an i.d. in and of itself is not an issue but if you are targeting certain communities to have i.d.s and you're not doing it in my neighborhood in rich white counties in virginia. >> as the argument made, disproportionately impacts people of color. >> i say we need to figure out a policy fix for this and what the supreme court did but this is a political issue. fundamentally you have to ask, why is it that the republicans believe that their strategy for winning is predicated on people not participating? that's -- that's just the question. they know that when people stay home, when fewer people vote participate in our democracy is the only time that they can win. i think that's the fundamental issue here. >> kate, what's been interesting though is that in 2012 some of

the voter i.d. legislation actually encouraged more people to get out and vote as sort of a backlash. the question is could we see that to some degree in places like north carolina where they have these restrictive i.d. laws in place. >> we could see that. i think there is a bigger concern about people being confused about the law right now. i have family in pennsylvania. they said they didn't know what they need to do to go vote anymore. where they spent $6 million about supposedly educating the public with these new laws and people were confused. i think that's a real threat. people don't even know what they need to do to go vote anymore. >> how do we do that when so much -- do i feel like the conservative machine is so much better than we are about talking about sort of muddying the waters and making people think, is this piece of paper or that piece of paper i need? >> let me just call it what it is. it is telling lies. ultimately during the campaign

though so many. different campaigns were found that they were doing robo calls, telling people the polling place was at a different location or the date was a different date. there is a strategy on a conservative side to tell blatant lies to keep people from participating. i think you're right, on the progressive side we don't do enough to get out and educate people and inspire them quite frankly to vote during mid terls. we aren't talking about issues that people care about and energize them and make them go vote. >> i was encouraged to see the president taking more of a role in talking about voting as he did at the national action network. bill clinton talked about the importance of voting. hopefully that will encourage people to make sure they know what the rules are. >> you say the conservatives lie, the kvgz conservative say liberals lie. people are like i'm not voting, i'm disgusted.

i'm with you, more people should participate but let's elevate this thing and get to a place where we talk about we fix what's broken and get more people in process. whether or not we agree is not the issue. >> that would be great but in wisconsin the judge ruled one way. scott walker says we're going to challenge it so the fight continues. the panel is sticking around. still ahead, are we at a turning point? support for the death penalty is on decline in america and now the president calls for reexamining the practice after a botched execution in oklahoma. in the nation, we reward safe driving. add vanishing deductible from nationwide insurance and get $100 off for every year of safe driving. we put members first. join the nation. ♪ nationwide is on your side

in the application of the death penalty in this country, we have seen significant problems. racial bias. an uneven application of the death penalty. situations in which there were individuals on death row who

later on were discovered to have been innocent because of exculpatory evidence. and all these, i think, do raise significant questions about how the death penalty is being applied and this situation in oklahoma i think just highlights some of the significant problems. >> that was president obama addressing a question about issues raised from a botched execution this week in oklahoma. in his comments the president was clear to reiterate that in his opinion there are crimes so heinous that warrant cap a tal punishment but he noted that the application of said punishment needs revising. think about what we do not know about the process used to put people to death in america. we do not know where the drugs used to administer death come from. we do not know how those drugs have been tested. how can we say their use is not cruel and unusual if we do not know how they work or what kind of pain they cause.

over 43 minutes tuesday night, a guilty man who, no doubt, committed a heinous rides writhes in pain in that oklahoma prison. they lowered the shades 19 minutes into the execution so we really do not know what happened as that man struggled for those remaining 24 minutes before he was pronounced dead. there's a lot we do not know. we don't even know if we're killing the right people. a brand-new study by the national academy of sciences this week suggests that 4% of people awaiting execution are likely innocent. think about it this way. since 1977, 1,378 americans have been executed in this country. if the study is accurate, as many as 55 innocent people may have been killed. imagine that. 55 innocent lives taken by the states. now the botched execution in oklahoma has re-ignited a conversation about national punishment and the president has announced he'll have attorney general eric holder review how the death penalty is applied. our panel is back with me.

joined by the executive director at the national coalition to abolish the death penalty. diane, i want to start with you and ask the question -- have you felt a shift this week -- we've certainly gone back to having more of a national conversation about the death penalty than we have in a long time. do you see a shift in attitudes? >> shreabsolutely. an incredible shift in attitudes starting with the fact that the president of the united states is now saying the death penalty needs to be more closely examined. he's speaking as someone who hasn't decided that the death pent is under all circumstances inappropriate so i think we've seen an incredible shift in the public's attitude over the years. these questions you've been raising about the fact that innocent people can be executed, the fact that we don't even know how we are actually going about these executions i think we've had had an incredible shift. now we can really say the death penalty's days are definitely numbered. >> one of the things that came out this week is that this sort of cocktail of drugs that they use because the eu won't sell them to the united states

anymore some states are running out so now they're trying to try different variations. they admittedly don't even know if what they are doing is working. >> there's very little known about how these drugs work, what these drugs are. that occurring in oklahoma this week really shed like on that issue. people don't realize we're basically testing this out on people. we saw in very vivid detail what that means in reality this week. >> diane, what's that going to mean long term in terms of how we look at options for administering the death penalty? >> the first thing i would say is thsh -- we are gating an up-close and personal at how the death penalty actually works in practice. oklahoma isn't the only state that's taking the position that they could execute people with secret drugs. the kind of hubris and arrogance, the pedal to the medal, we're going forth with the execution no matter what, so

i think there will be much more of a focus on how the government weighs in and how it decides to kill, which is actually recklessly. when we execute people regardless of whether they're innocent, that's behave recklessly. i think that really shifts the focus of the debate. it is a place for people to get engaged and ask these hard questions. >> it's been interesting because a number of elected officials certainly from states that do administer the death penalty that seen they have not seen a shift, have not changed their mind. governor rick perry from texas was on "meet the press" this morning and talked about it. let's listen. >> is it appropriate for a pause in our national discussion and application of the death penalty, the president talking

about bias, uneven application, soul searching questions that he'd's like the country to take. do you agree with that? >> there may be appropriate for a pause in oklahoma. >> sophia, he went on to essentially say that in texas, he feels -- they use one particular drug. we don't mow what drug that is but that he feels very comfortable with the procedures in texas. i find that a little bit surprising that he wouldn't at least acknowledge that maybe we should take a look at this. >> i'm for the death penalty. completely. but we should never shy away as a nation from checking ourselves, taking a look at if we're doing the right thing, if we're administering justin in appropriate ways. with regard to what happened in oklahoma, while i agree in uniform cases -- i disagree that the government behaved recklessly. the jury makes a decision that the person is sentenced to death and the government carries out that sentence. >> well, but as they saw him writhing in pain and they decided --

>> i understand. but i want to think about the young lady, the victim, where if you guys know the back story, google it, check it out. she was buried alive. he showed no mercy. raped. shot somebody's only daughter. so i want us to be balanced with these things. >> we are being balanced. i think the point is nobody is saying that people who do horrible things shouldn't be punished. what we are see saying that there are limits that our constitution imposes and that morality and humanity imposes and that the rest of the world is looking at. we should never be thinking that if we question how our governmentby havz we're somehow being disloyal to people who are harmed. that's absolutely not the case. what i would also say is that this would not be the first time in rick perry's case where the facts are being ignored. the reality is that public support for the death penalty has declined markedly particularly because of these issues of innocence, michael steele was on msnbc earlier talking about how he thought

that what happened in oklahoma was going to actually increase the amount of opposition and lower the support. so this issue really is moving through the american public and we're going to see the end of it. >> aisha, one final point from think progress. something you may know a little bit about. one of the concerns i think a lot of people have -- this goes sort of to this broader issue about sentencing reform -- but how disproportionately it is people of color who are on death row and this sort of -- again, i think this goes to the idea of this application of some of these penalties. again, in this one particular case, what he did was horrible. that i'm not saying. but i do think it gives us a moment to take a step back and just question our humanity for a second and make sure that we're doing things in accordance to our values. >> question our humanity and certainly question our criminal justice system largely. exactly like you said, there is a disproportionate impact of the way that our laws are applied, miscarriages of justice that happen against people of color

particularly african-american males but also i'm putting a report out on this on wednesday talking about the criminalization of lgbt people and people who are living with h hiv in this country. i think for the president and for attorney general eric holder, to be looking at this is just another case along with drug sentencing of why we need to reexamine our criminal justice system and our penalties in a bigger, bolder way to get at those disparities. this is one of those opportunities for people to not be arrogant and turn a blind eye and to say, yeah, we should rethink this. >> i think the realization that the system is not flawless and now that we have better dna testing and better scientific methods behind this we are seeing people being exonerated. that gives people pause. our panel will be back. still ahead -- why does the right get worked up in support of cliven bundy's property

rights, but they're silent for some of the men and women whose land is taken for the keystone pipeline? that is next. what super poligrip does for me is it keeps the food out. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. [ male announcer ] just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. [ corrine ] super poligrip is part of my life now. -hit the beach in florida. -and a reunion in seattle. to seal out more food particles. we can afford to take more trips this year. [man] when hotels have unsold rooms, they use hotwire to fill them. [woman] so we got our 4-star hotels... for half price. ♪ h-o-t-w-i-r-e ♪ hotwire.com

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because you can't beat zero heartburn. woo hoo! [ male announcer ] prilosec otc is the number one doctor recommended frequent heartburn medicine for 8 straight years. one pill each morning. 24 hours. zero heartburn. well, believe government official, when they overstep their line, i think it is my job to call them on it. and make no mistake about it, i'll continue to do just that, because long before the mainstream media paid any attention to cliven bundy and his ranch, we on this network focused on issues like eminent domain for many, many years. >> first of all, there is nothing similar between the case of cliven bundy and a case involving eminent domaidomain. that is where the government takes private land for are what it seize as a government purpose. cliven bundy has illegally been grazing his cattle on public land for over 20 years. government did not take anything

away from mr. bundy. but in the case of the keystone extra pipeline its builder transcanada is using the power of eminent domain to take hundreds of miles of private land from private owners. while many conservatives were quick to defend mr. bundy's right to free load on the american taxpayers by refusing to pay his grazing fees, conservatives are pushing the pipeline and criticizing the obama administration. i'm talking about the rights of private landowners like randy thompson in nebraska. i would think the conservatives would be falling all over themselves to defend them against the big, bad government. where is the outrage! >> i think they would be outraged if this was a green energy project if they were going to seize people's land and

put up windmills. clifb bundy supporters would be out there in full force. because this is an oil pipeline they are much more sympathetic to it being built and have ignored the issue of the private property rights being taken away here. >> julia trigg-crawford, transcanada keeps trying to say they've made certain offers to people. >> they made an offer. they upped the offer. then they said, and if you don't sign this you're going to ta it anyway and you're going to get a lot less. that's where our family decided to make a stand. think what people may not realize is even though we're not fighting in court to say they didn't have the right to take our land, they've built the pipeline anyway. >> i want to read a statement from transcanada just to be fair. they say, "we recognize that while there may be some vocal opponents to the keystone excel, they do not represent the majority of landowners all along the approved route.

the imminent domain process is one that we do not like to use but sometimes we have to when we cannot reach an agreement about compensation. what frustrates me is that people like julia have no rights, literally. if something should happen with this pipeline on her land she has no rights. she has no rights to even know what chemicals are coarsing through that pipeline. >> that's why the majority of nebraskaens are actually against this. people in nebraska actually don't want the pipeline. would you imagine a state like nebraska would be empathetic or sympathetic to drilling for oil. but there are so many safety issues in terms of pollution that people are just getting uproared about. what happens then if that pipeline leaks as they all do. we know that they all do. then it completely pollutes the local water source there. who is going to clean that up? who is responsible for that? >> if it tends to leak on your land, then you also have no rights. it is interesting. it is a bipartisan issue. have you a number of democratic

senators calling for this. senator landrieu. right? some suggesting that it is jobs. senator landrieu calling for a vote next week. but what's sort of interesting is, i guess what they're saying is we want to go around the president and say, yes, you can build this pipeline, we'll just stop in nebraska until the nebraska case is worked out -- i mean that seems a little bit of election year politics. >> of course it is, karen! i mean, come on! but let's get back to the issue. i agree, it is not and imminent domain issue -- >> you're a lawyer. >> i am. i was sitting there going, wow, this is not right. but let me say, i'll try to be altruistic. we have a have issues of public private, what the public can't do account private do and is there a different standard. there h i do agree it is a little bit bizarre that those who would normally be defending the rights of people like miss

trigg-crawford, that they're voiceless and basically they are being told you either take this offer or lose your land. there has to be in this-between somewhere. every issue we've talked about on this wonderful panel today, as much as i may disagree, that we've all been reasonable in saying we at least need to talk about it, come to some type of something with it. >> i hope we can all agree that cliven bundy is a moocher. our panel will be right back. still ahead, beyonce versus bill billion low. the no-spin zone takes on one of the biggest stars in the world. did you get my e-mail? [ man ] i did.

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holy [ bleep ]! are you pregnant? wait. did you just get six months pregnant? >> this is what happens when someone like me watches a very sexy beyonce video. >> that is crazy! how do you know it's from watching the video? >> just check out this sonogram. >> beyonce on young women of color. at least according to fox news host bill o'reilly. bill o.'s got a bone to pick with the chart-topping singer and he laid it out in the no-spin zone. >> for young girls who do not have parental supervision, what beyonce does could have a

negative influence. she knows -- this woman knows that young girls getting pregnant in the african-american community now, it is about 70% out of wedlock. she knows and doesn't seem to care. she was born with a talent that god gave her. she as made an enormous amount of money she should be smart enough to know what she's doing now is harming some children. >> this wasn't the first time oreally has criticized beyonce. as much as he has a problem with her. he just keeps bringing her up. >> she puts out a new album with a video that glorifies having sex in the back of a limousine. teenage girls look up to beyonce. particularly gills of color. she's an idol to them. why on earth would this woman do that? why would she do it when she knows the devastation that unwanted pregnancies and fractured families -- why would beyonce do that? >> so, beyonce is responsible

for the epidemic of teen pregnancy that the country is facing. right. never mine that teen pregnancy is at an all-time low and the panel is back with me. everybody's been waiting for this one! i'm going to start with you, aisha. i know -- >> because i'm the biggest fan. >> you're ibl to cite where you were when this album came out. >> yes. >> i took issue with a number of things oreally was talking about. if you know her story, she was with jay-z for a long time, then they got married, then they had a baby that's how the conservatives tell us we are supposed to be doing it, right? >> there are a lot of things i can say. first, in terms of being an influence on teenagers, who beyonce was as a teenager was someone who is working her tail off to be someone she is today. if anything she he is an inspiration for 16-year-old girls if they use their talent

they can be somebody. bill o'reilly is just completely off base about almost everything all the time but if anything in the black community beyonce and jay-z are role models for it is being a power couple and it is really black love. she is a married woman who has a healthy relationship with her husband and in fact in that video it was actually her husband in the video in the back of the limo. >> most of the songs on the album are about love -- >> in the context of marriage. if he thinks that's a bad thing, that's exactly what's wrong with the republican party. sex, right? >> i don't know. i won't make that joke. sophia, is it just -- seriously, is it a matter though -- you have a book coming out where you talk about woman code. one of the things that strikes me, is it her sexuality that people have an issue with? why is it that a powerful, strong woman can't also be sexy? >> let's do a fact check on o'reilly. first of all, 73% of black

babies are born out of wedlock. this problem has existed for a very, very long time. i promise you, mr. and mrs. america that beyonce is not responsible for teen pregnancy. but to ereilly's point that he bumbled badly. here is a beautiful woman that young particularly african-american girls look up to. beyonce is in the band bossy campaign. i guess that. but i agree with you on this one 100%, she is talking about sex with her husband and that's a positive thing, they are married, waited to have a baby, they are still hot for each other which is a good thing. >> that's a good lesson. >> what i'm saying is that i think you're right, they are role models, they are one of the wealthiest couples on forbes. they are entrepreneurial. they went around the industry. dropped it on what -- itunes and

went to walmart and did it themselves. i think they are teaching lot of things. yeah, it is risque. yeah -- the video is a little sexy. but if you know jay-z and you saw the grammys, in the chair with the wet hair thing she did, it works for them. >> here's part of what i have an issue. it is not just statistics. cdc recently came out with a study and basically found that one of the big problems is that young people don't know enough about birth control. and that if they have access to birth control and literally this was a line in the study -- before they have sex it is more effective, obviously. formal sex education, only 6 in 10 learn about birth control and how to say no. communication with parents, only 4 in 10 learned about birth control and how to talk to their parents. point being, it is not just -- i don't think you can put it all on a gorgeous woman being sexy in a video or on a magazine cover when there are real

problems here that are systemic that are impacting what's happening with young girls. >> young girls need to know about birth control but they also need to feel empowered to use it. that's big issue in relationships. you can know about it but you need to be able to say let's use birth control. if you are an older white male cable news host, one thing you should know about beyonce, if you like her you should put a ring on it, and girls around the world. it is absurd to blame beyonce for this. we need to have a bigger conversation about how not only to educate but empower women. >> i do find that we're not talking about, again, some of the other systemic things. a study was done that said the combination of being poor and living in a poor, unequal and less mobile society leads to a low perception of possible economic success and hence choices that favor short-term satisfaction, in this case the decision to have a baby while

young and unmarried. i've worked with teenage pregnant girls who literally didn't know they had another choice. >> it's deeper than that. no role modeling. these girls aren't seeing a dad and a mom. something probably most of us grew up seeing. again, pop culture absolutely has an influence. but it is family. it is a church culture. it is a work culture. it is a school culture. it is a village, as hillary clinton said. it takes a village to raise our girls and to empower they will to make the right choices. it is a code. >> in this case, beyonce and jay-z are absolutely showing that model of what a family looks like. >> i agree. >> bill, we all agree. you were wrong. but you can keep playing the video if you'd like. i want to thank my panel. that does it for me. thank you so much for joining us. don't forget to share your thoughts about beyonce and bill o'reilly. i will see you back here next weekend at 34:4:00 p.m. eastern. have a great week.

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